Tuesday, March 28, 2017

Big Clanking Balls

November 21, 2009 by  
Filed under Latest News, Mark's Vlog

Australian Senator Nick Xenophon calls Scientology a criminal organization, Marc Headley releases “Blown for Good,” and Aussiie critic Aaron Saxton makes a great video.  All of these guys have balls of steel.

I also discuss why I think people should stand together denouncing Scientology abuse even if we don’t fully agree on every issue.

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Comments

20 Responses to “Big Clanking Balls”
  1. Phil Anderson says:

    It’s hard to express how much joy I get from seeing this in the media at the moment – let alone a video from yourself mentioning and promoting it.

    You talk about how we look to different people to help us, to seek advice or stories from. This site, and what you and so many other people are doing is so important.

    No one should be treated, or have to endure the kind of abuse that occurs inside their organisation. It’s great that we can come here and find out the truth.

    Right now, with everything that is going on, this is my new homepage.

    Keep up the good work!

  2. PS says:

    Keep up the good work. At worst this thing will die with DM, but he’s young enough that thing can blown well before then.

    Hip hip hooray.

  3. wil thompson says:

    So agree with the above post. The time is coming.

    We love you WBM.

  4. Mike says:

    Rathbun has so much insider information from such a high level in the organization that it’s absolutely essential that he keeps talking. Regardless of whether he acknowledges or apologises for any wrongdoing. He can confirm the stories of lots of others, and that in itself is valuable. That said, I read some of the recent posts on his blog about the tech and it’s astonishing to me that he can still be such a true believer. He’s seen through so much of the control mechanisms that get abused in the church, but he still has nearly blind faith in Hubbard. He’s obviously capable of putting up with some serious cognitive dissonance in his head.

  5. cwhale says:

    Your efforts to reach concensus on issues and lessen the bickering is sound and understandable.

    However, I strongly feel a cult’s structures and philosophy go hand in hand. If you set aside Hubbard’s more loftier writings and focus on the books and lectures that emphasize control, seperatism, paranoia and punishment these paved the way for the Guardian’s Office and later the Office of Speacil Affairs. His writings also justified the RPF and the Sea Org.

    To be fair, I have never fully read Hubbard’s works or listened/viewed any information on CDs, DVDs or the like. It would be silly to suggest everything within these works is useless or that many Scientologist, navie though they may be, don’t derive something positive from them.

    Yet, I’m sure you have heard of the saying, “where there’s smoke…”. The constant criticisms, complaints, legal actions, defections and protests stemming from this cult clearly show a major and systemic problem in both it’s structure and philosophy.

    As for the “free zone”, perhaps those people have decided to be selective in their application of Hubbard’s works, omitting the more questionable contents.

    Nevertheless, any free person may choose any path they wish provided they recognize that same choice belongs to all others – Scientology, in both structure and philosophy do not and therein lies the rub. Such an institution is incapable of change from within and must be forced to change from without.

    I agree that Scientology or some such cultish group will survive in some fashion as the years go by (there will always be people seeking …), our task from expressing views or direct involvement is to ensure that whatever comes after this current configuration is better, more just and unafraid of criticism.

    To believe in something is human. Even those that claim to have no beliefs is, in itself, a belief. No belief should come with conditions. No individual or group should represent a belief falsely or for hidden reasons. Ultimately, this is our goal: free beliefs freely believed and, more importantly, just as freely discarded if one chooses to do so.

  6. Ironhead says:

    The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend. but it’s cool….I don’t need to be bestest buddies with everyone.

  7. bunkai says:

    Mike, I think Rathbun’s whole angle may be an attempt to rope both liberal and fundamentalist Scientologists back into embracing the tech. I think his stand of “The tech and LRH aren’t perfect, but it worked” Is his way of trying to look at the donut and not the hole.

    But the mind control systems built within 1960 Scientology cannot be ignored. I’m hopeful that the abuses will stop and the cult dynamics dealt with. People can believe what they want.

    BTW WBM, you are MY Doctor!

    Doctor Who is a Bodhisattva in a time machine.

    Wise Beard Man is Bodhisattva in beard!

    “May all Scientologists be happy, may all Scientologists be secure, may all Scientologists be happy minded and may their hearts be wholesome.”

    (Reworded from the Tetta Sutta.)

    _/!\_ (gassho)

  8. bunkai says:

    Oops. I mean’t “Metta Sutta” doh!

    “May all beings be happy … yada yada …”

  9. anon says:

    his words remain wise
    his face remains beard

  10. Scam Shamalam says:

    You have certainly given me a lot to think about.

    I am always happy when someone leaves the cult. But to fully earn my respect ex-members should eventually do something to diminish the problems they caused while they were in there. Sometimes, it just means saying, “I’m sorry, I made a mistake,” to the friends they had tried to turn on to Scientology. Sometimes it’s a lot more. I understand that all are confused while leaving. I understand that many just want to get on with their lives. I try to empathize.

    I also notice among friends who have left that some still think that certain parts of Scientology work when they just don’t. Some never leave behind the paranoia and conspiracy theories. Some have latched onto another flim-flam man. One has tried to become a flim-flam man himself. There are steps in leaving. There are degrees of leaving.

    I don’t think Rinder and Rathbun have reached the point where they have made up for their earlier actions. Maybe someday they will.

    Certainly, I don’t expect either one of them to think about the world in just the same way I do but neither should they expect their victims to be accepting or even tolerant of everything they do or say.

    Like you, I suspect that Scientology in some form or another will go on for a long time. We won’t be able to completely put a cap on it. I can’t put a cap on tens of thousands of storefront psychics, let alone Uri Geller, Kevin Trudeau, John Edward or Sylvia Browne. Still, when the subject comes up I can give people my educated opinion.

    I don’t expect everyone to visit your website, quackwatch or randi.org or listen to the Dr. Joe Show on the radio. For me, it’s a hobby.

    With any luck the Hubbardians will become just another loosely associated group of tricksters who put foolish ideas in people’s heads but will no longer be interested in fleecing their victims for every nickel they have.

    The signs outside their storefronts will read, “Palm Reading, Crystal Ball Gazing, E-Meter Readings, Horoscopes”.

  11. Moochie says:

    Mark, I understand your attitude toward Rathbun and Rinder — to me they seem immature adults who really haven’t figured out what a colossal scam $cientology is (or perhaps they have, but won’t say because they have plans to exploit others outside of the Co$). Sure, some, perhaps many public $cientologists get some cathartic moments out of the practices of auditing and such, but anyone with an internet connection can see auditing’s antecedents, how it’s a hodge-podge of psychological strategies to get people to unburden themselves of psychological barriers to their happiness. And what does the “church” do with what it learns via auditing? Give me a break!

    It’s plain to me that the entire edifice is a money-making con, invented by LRH and perpetuated by Miscarriage.

    It’s high time the world became aware of this chancre on its body, and took decisive steps to remedy the problem.

    Rathbun and Rinder need to ‘fess up.

    M.

  12. Jay McKee says:

    Appreciate your central, cathartic message trying to neutralize the acid reactions of a mixed bag group of people Forgiveness is a valid and necessary part of the healing process. Deprogramming from brainwashing techniques is always complex and an individual process. When crimes and/or abuses were part of the mix, it becomes an exceedingly volatile and hazardous procedure, not too unlike walking through old landmine fields.

    My point is that many need professional help when taking that treacherous journey. The forums are of help in getting information out, but I am seeing more and more using it as a tool of recovery when it is not. In fact, the opportunities of being abused all over again is evident too many times.

    I would like to see more references to seeking professional help. Also, when crimes are involved, the persons perpetuating them are called criminals and should be answerable to the authorities will full justic procedures initiated. Even the slightest, suggestible hint that this is not the case can be devastating and intimidating to any of their victims.

    As far as Scn reform, while the stolen bits and pieces of common sense self-help are the initiating lure, it is such a miniscule embodiment of Scn that it defies any reason for it’s survival. One can talk to the flowers in one’s garden, for free, and feel benefit. It would be far more beneficial for Scientologists to find ways outside of Hubbardism to practice the “Creed”. The world is in vast need of help, volunteers, donations, and there is no scarcity of ways that anyone can help.

  13. Jay McKee says:

    Oh, I should mention I’m a “founding” Scn, and also Ex SO. Out for a quarter of a century, and yet, still harrassed. Was still a hubbard believer, until internetz. I felt soooo much better when I read the truth about him. But live in area with Scn’s and has impact in some ways. But when I read about how even more horrific it has become, started speaking out, anonymously.

    In another time, I would agree with you WBM that any ally is good, but now that others are speaking out, I take exception about Marty and Rinder for the simple reason they are not needed anymore and their criminal actions need to be brought to justice. Hope you understand that it is only the lack of justice and consequences that is so extremely upsetting and reactionary.

  14. Jay McKee says:

    Mark: If you had a daughter that was coerced into an abortion, or forced to disconnect from you, or was raped and coerced into not reporting it to the police, or slashed her wrists just enough to get out of the sea org, or was subjected to 18 hours hard labor with rice and beans for meals, or or or…
    or committed suicide … would you still feel the same way as you mentioned in this video? Seriously?

  15. XENU TV says:

    I believe I speak out about all those abuses all the time. I did so just last night on a New Zealand radio show.

    But because I and a whole slew of other people are talking about these issues doesn’t mean Marty Rathbun can’t have another message that gets through to people on a different level. We may not agree on everything but I support him speaking out in his way and Aaron and others speaking out in their ways.

    I’m not stop you or anyone else from expressing your views here on my site. I just think it may be better to have a respectful discussion instead of simply attacking which happens way too often.

    So while Aaron and I were talking about forced abortions, the RPF, and disconnection last night, Marty was making Slappy’s life miserable by pointing out to other high level OT’s that there’s something wrong in Denmark. I think it’s all helpful.

    But I understand you position completely and you have every right to disagree with me. Aaron’s got real anger he’s expressing in his videos and I think it’s probably healthy for him to do so. I’m not telling him to change his message. I’m saying the “you with us or your with the terrorists” mentality may not be the healthiest way to confront this.

    Marty and Mike have both faced disconnection and lost loved ones. They speak out against that and some other abuses. We differ on other issues, but I appreciate that they are taking those first steps. We’ll see if they go farther. But nasty pranks and vicious attacks aren’t any way to win the hearts and minds of those under attack already by corporate Scientology or those who are watching on the sidelines.

  16. BLiP says:

    With respect, I’m in two minds about Rathbun and Rinder. What concerns me most is that they cling to the demonstrably harmful tech. For twenty years they prostrated themselves at the feet of Slappy, reaping the rewards of their obsequious mendacity while enabling and practising $cientology’s darkest arts, witnessing first hand the suffering created by the tech – and now, all of a sudden, they’re out and fighting the good fight? I don’t think so.

    Perhaps they are not vultures who, having spotted the early signs of death, have left their perches to commence circling before swooping and feasting upon the inevitable and no doubt tasty carrion. I have seen abundant chatter about the alleged incredulity of the adherents and, given the disdain with which Rathbun and Rinder have held their congregation, would I be guilty of equal naivety to not be wary of their motives?

    As others have mentioned above, the so called independents have much penance to complete before I consider extending good faith. My enemy’s foe is not automatically my ally. However, since it is you, WBM, I’ll limit my comments and actions in relation to them to this one post and watch to see how the eventual squabble for the residual assets begins to shape up. Bickering, as you point out, will only hinder the primary objective.

    What is clear is that there will be suffering when Co$ disintegrates. Those lost souls, the innocents who have been brainwashed, will be bereft of all comfort when they emerge, blinking and frightened into the sunlight of reality. It is incumbent upon us all to treat these victims with the respect any human being deserves, bull-baiting thugs included. For most, their only sin, really, was to exercise excessive trust. I can’t imagine how I would feel if my universe caved in; theirs’ is about to.

  17. Mark Bunker says:

    I welcome people’s candid comments. No one has to agree with me. While they victimized many, they were victimized as well. Reading Marc Headley’s book, I’m getting a greater sense of the sheer insanity going on under Slappy. I don’t think Hubbard was any better. He created the damn mess.

    But I think Mike and Marty are making a huge impact with their actions and I wish them well.

  18. Nick C. says:

    So I’m about halfway through Blown For Good as well. It’s a pretty amazing book – it seriously could have used some editing for grammar, but the story is so good I can overlook that. However, Headley makes a pretty startling claim I’d never heard before (I guess “spoilers” follow): that David Miscavige held a briefing at Flag one day and berated the Flag org staff that public Scientologists weren’t moving along the bridge fast enough, and he read examples from their PC folders by name. One of the names was Lisa McPherson, and Headley goes on to say that Miscavige was personally overseeing her case in the year or so leading up to her death. Is this true? Is it a well-known thing that I’ve just managed to never hear about, or is this a new revelation?

  19. Nick C. says:

    And also re: Rathbun and Rinder, the problem isn’t that people believe Hubbard’s crap. Hubbard was an evil con man, but he’s dead and gone. He’s only a symbol at this point. If you want to believe in his wacky stories, fine. I happen to think that most religions are made up of wacky stories. The problem is, as Enturbulator009 so succinctly put it, “that midget NAMBLA member necrophile punk bitch” using Hubbard’s wacky stories as a method to extort money from people, and employ slave labor, and terrorize and torture people, etc. Sure, Hubbard did the same, but what are you going to do to Hubbard? Hubbard is dust.

  20. Knight of Anonymous says:

    Xenophone hit it right on the button. Maybe Scientology will banned forever in Austrailia. Then exile all of Scientologists out of their country.

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