Friday, March 24, 2017

New Zealand Radio Show

November 29, 2009 by  
Filed under Aaron Saxton, Latest News, Radio Shows


I had the great good fortune to share the airwaves with Aaron Saxton in a live radio broadcast from New Zealand.  It airs Sundays at 10pm down there but here it was 1 a.m. as the show went out live.

Even wacky on the cold meds, I managed to make some sense of Scientology’s mythology and practices.  At least more sense than the actual Scientology spokesperson who was the first to appear on the show, Mike Ferris.  I have to hand it to Mike, though.  I  predicted he never would stick around to face questions from us but he did.  Here’s Mike’s segment:

Listen or Download Part 1

Next Aaron came on to tell some of his story before I was asked to join in.

Listen or Download Part 2

In part three, we had a respectful free-for-all with all three of us.

Listen or Download Part 3

It was a lot of fun and I was very impressed with host Pat Brittenden who did a great job of asking tough but polite questions.  He did what too few hosts do.  he actually played clips of Hubbard talking about Xenu in his own voice.   During the first segment, while Mike was talking about Christ, I emailed the audio clip of Hubbard saying there was no Christ to the show but the hour flew by so fast there was no time to use it.  But I did manage to organically slip in a plug for Blown for Good by Marc Headley.


13 Responses to “New Zealand Radio Show”
  1. Mike says:

    Love the Xenu discussion! Ferris first says Xenu is nothing and then says that he is something and then keeps squirming. Is this the first time someone has played a Hubbard recording to a spokesperson and asked for clarification? It’s not even a copyright violation, because the sort bit is clearly within fair use. Btw. could Hubbard possibly sound any more like a cheap charlatan than that?

    Christians can say that the Old Testament is symbolic and you can just pretty much ignore it. When the scilons try to get away doing the same with bad scifi from the 60s, it’s kinda difficult to get people to understand why Hubbard wrote it in the first place.

  2. Astrid says:

    Scilon Ferris needs to “word clear” esoteric. Seems to have a “withhold” about it. “Esoteric means esoteric” doesn’t quite cut it and saying it is “high level” is deceptive in itself, as that is only part of it.

    OTIII Xenu is esoteric, secret cockamamie, which happens to be the closest they have to a Genesis story, as it explains why a person needs Scientology. It is SECRET, known to only a few who go past the $200,000 level in paying into the scam.

    As far as it having deep spiritual meaning, Superman and Star Wars were much deeper. Sure, it freaks out some Scilons and makes them nutty paranoid liars, but really…

    Scientologists like Ferris purposely avoid telling the truth about their own fake religion, that every level is loaded with secrets, that can only be learned by paying for the previous level, pyramid con that it is, as Mark explained so well. The question is, if they think they can “save the planet,” why can’t they even explain the BASICS of what Scientologists believe theologically. I don’t mean some vague crap about “applied religious philosophy.”

    Either put out with the comic book stuff that is Scientology’s stupid beliefs or shut up.

    Their whole policy of lying to protect the scam was throughout but came into play in particular when Scilon Ferris claimed that if his parents or family openly opposed Scientology, he would still be allowed to associate with them, and he’d be fine with it.

    The truth is, he’d be asked to disconnect with them, the minute they threatened him working for, or paying into, the scam.

    Aaron is my new favorite ex, but in this interview, Mark you really did well.

    And the interviewer did what all media should do; have at least one clip of Hubbard in his own voice talking his crazy.

  3. binturong says:

    of course they wont tell you about it, you haven’t paid for it yet. it just wouldn’t be good business to go around giving scientology for free!!! i mean, come on!!!

  4. mbm says:

    In Touch Magazine: KATIE MOVES OUT!!!!

    (are are the celebs getting in their breakups before the new year now? Gwyneth and Chris, Posh and Becks, Reese and Jake, now Tomkat)

  5. Dreambod says:

    Hi Mark,
    Unfortunately I missed you “live” last night by about 20 minutes, so I caught up on RadioLive’s OnDemand service this morning.
    I thought the interview was very balanced, I commend Pat for his interviewing technique, and I’ve supported your arguements for a long time.

    But I wonderer if Scientology in NZ operates to the same levels as Australia and the US? they seem to have scaled back their operation significantly in the last 10-15 years. Thier offices were located on Auckland’s main street, now they’re found in a back suburb that not many Aucklanders go to.

    One interesting point, I heard Ferris on an earlier programme in the week claiming that there are maybe 5,000 up to 10,000 Scientologists in NZ, where as a investigative programme about Cults coincedentally televised in the same week sited only 357 members from the last census results – sure not everyone declares their religion on a census but I don’t expect the stats to be out that much!

    I admire your commitment, I think you, Tory and Anonymous are winning!

  6. Christine says:

    It’s too bad there wasn’t more time to talk about disconnection and the “Us/Them” attitude. Perhaps Mama Ferris doesn’t dare speak about the elephant in the room out of fear of disconnection. No doubt all those communication courses are working well!

  7. Greg says:

    I love Ferris comments how other religions have secrets that they won’t talk about. I was raised in a very Catholic home and there is not one single thing that I was told to never talk about. If you want to know what Christians believe you can just walk into any church and ask the reverend and they will tell you. There are no secrets.

    Also, Christianity is free. It will not cost you $300,000 to learn what they believe.

  8. fjd says:

    Ferris is actually quite correct that there are certain other religions and “cultic” organizations that have secret teachings and practices that no one, or practically no one, will talk openly about with non-members. For instance, the Mormons (LDS), Druze, Freemasons, and college fraternities and sororities come to mind (check out the discussion pages for leaked “Greek” organization documents on Wikileaks). However, I am not aware of any other group that even prohibits members who have attained the requisite “level” or “rank” from talking about such things with one another, nor am I aware of any group that charges such outrageous prices to attain to said levels.

    Will Ferris be in trouble for merely acknowledging that Xenu/Xemu is part of Scientology’s “esoterica,” or for saying that questions concerning him do not personally offend him?

  9. marcehole says:

    I am an ex-Scientologist. The “Scientology Phenomenon” is a labyrinth of monumental proportions. I can fully comprehend Mike Ferris’ response… it is to be expected. I think he is being sincere… albeit deluded. I was IN, and then I was SORT OF OUT, then finally at last, after almost 20 years can claim to be completely OUT. It was a truly mind-bending journey… certainly not as dramatic as Aaron’s… but nonetheless a profound mind-f—! My sister is still IN. Critical thinking is a foreign concept to those who are IN. My heart grieves for ALL Scientologists. They are victims of a monstrous machine… including DM… and I dare say LRH himself (albeit with due hesitation…:).

  10. DUSTER says:

    Hello Mark,
    I have been trying to find out how to contact you. Can you contact me please?

  11. Brian says:

    I listened to this and I actually left feeling that at the end of seg 3, the Scientology rep seemed to be the better of the three speakers.

    While hostiles here will prob think i’m a Scientologist – i’m not… i used to be, but i left in 2007. I found the responses of Mark and Aron to be more hostility driven. It’s really hard for me to know who’s “telling the truth.”

    When I was a Scientologist, I NEVER experienced the policy of disconnect as described by those who’ve left. I’m not saying they’re lieing. but it wasn’t that way for me. In fact, when I was in Scientology, I told my auditor I wanted to formally disconnect from a relative. I detested this relative. They were, as I saw (and to this day believe) to be a surpressive person (in the sense of only wanting to harm, endanger and make one’s life worse.) The auditor and the staff at the Upland Org in California told me that disconnection was ONLY in extreme cases and they likened it to disconnecting from an abusive (physically, emotionally) person – or in cases of safety. While I wanted to just write this relative off, they convinced me to work it out, sit down with them and find middle ground.

    Which is more like what the Scientology rep describes. Considering I personally never saw the result that Mark or Aron described (which doesn’t mean it isn’t true, but I didn’t see it) it’s easier for me to believe the Sci rep.

    One reason I joined Scientology – was my personal belief to join something to see what it is really like. I left because of the money. the constant demand for money. To this day I still get calls, but i just hang up.

    I support the efforts to get truth out about kids who work in the org for free, people who go without food or comforts… in sea org. BUT, is that much different from a Buddhist monk who forgoes all luxuries, to live in a hovel in Tibet (pre ousting of the Dalai Lama) while the Dalai Lama lives in a palace surrounded in gold?

    Regarding Hubbard’s quote on Christ… while it might be a good arguing point to Scientologists who claim compatibility with Christianity… I think it’s a point I agree with. I think Hubbard was greatly influenced by Aleister Crowley (even though Crowley thought little of hubbard) and I think Hubbard took Crowley’s view of Christ being a falsehood and in fact a deception to mankind. they might be right. It isn’t the Church of Scientology that is inspiring a nation to murder millions over the last 2000 years. Even in our lifetime, we’ve had presidents acting upon Faith in Christianity – we’ve had Churches backing certain parties – to stand in force to destroy the lives of others in places like Iraq and around the world. The Christtian faith has done a lot of damage… and in comparing it like you did Mark (raising the point) it can be brought back… when did Scientology burn houses, kill millions? Perhaps, you might say, “they have been given enough room to do so.” Perhaps – but if we stand in a glass house, can we throw stones? If you’re going to stand against their intollerance, actions and hold them accountable… do you and yours do the same for all other religions? Do you judge the Buddhists Lama who slaps the monk for an infraction? I was a Buddhist, I know they are strict. Do you judge the Dalai Lama for living in luxury in Tibet while monks beg in the streets? Do you condemn the Christian for supporting geo politics, rather then “turning the other cheek?”

    I find all this anti-scientology to be more like it’s nemesis then in opposition. you guys seem like the flip side of the force you fight.

  12. Caliwog says:

    I love the way Ferris couldn’t keep it together when the interviewer brought up Xenu (could be spelled x-e-m-u). That was beautiful!

Speak Your Mind

Tell us what you're thinking...
and oh, if you want a pic to show with your comment, go get a gravatar!